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[Locked] Menu: Who is using the window management entries? Let's move them to a submenu!
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matttbe English 23 matttbe [Read]
03 October 2012 à 11:56

matttbe, Monday 27 August 2012 à 03:04


Subscription date : 24 January 2009
Messages : 12573
Hello,

I've a tiny question: Who is using the window management entries?
This is these actions that we have on the menu of each running application: (Show, (un)Maximise, Minimise, Below windows and Close).

I think that these actions are rarely use because to show or minimise an application, we can simply do a left click on the launcher and to close, we can use the middle. But I guess that most people use the buttons on the top of all windows to close/maximise/minimise it.
This is why I propose to move these actions to a new submenu in order to reduce the size of the right-click menu. What do you think about that?

Before and after:
http://uppix.net/0/0/f/206a4ee9e8f54185b24839392960b.png => http://uppix.net/f/c/3/f0fa8f31804b237974eaccfd83dda.png


The new submenu:
http://uppix.net/f/5/3/c3aad52adad8d6513f88947d138d5.png


'Launch a new' is now on the main submenu (menu with the title of the icon)
http://uppix.net/0/0/0/76be23320e41f06cdc754a60626c6.png


Yesterday, Fabounet said that even if he doesn't use them, it's possible that many people use them and these actions should be available quickly. This is why he wants to have feedbacks. I just pushed the new modifications on BZR, feel free to test them and give us your feedback Of course it's also possible to revert this change or to do other modifications

lylambda, Monday 27 August 2012 à 16:55


Subscription date : 06 September 2009
Messages : 1635
I agree with you matttbe, I manage my windows exactly how you explain. So i think it's good idea

taiebot65, Monday 27 August 2012 à 17:47


Subscription date : 26 October 2008
Messages : 1904
why not make them as an option and remove the menu window management altogether.
I personnally never use it and found the other options more useful especially kill.

SQP, Thursday 30 August 2012 à 11:57


Subscription date : 03 July 2010
Messages : 1081
Even if I don't use them often, I don't like the idea of hiding those actions.

IMHO, they should be at the end of the list (under recent files), under a separator.
The name of the first restore option (corresponding to UnMaximize) should be changed to not match the other restore option.
and I'm not really sure what the second restore is supposed to do

Maybe we can move some options in its already existing submenu : other actions
And just keep fast access to the most common WM actions : minimize / maximize /close (I even think that maximize could be moved to other actions.)

A little cleanup could do more good that hiding everything into a box submenu.
There's no point of having nothing accessible in the first menu level. (11 items from 1st screenshot don't seem overwhelming)

matttbe, Thursday 30 August 2012 à 14:50


Subscription date : 24 January 2009
Messages : 12573
The name of the first restore option (corresponding to UnMaximize) should be changed to not match the other restore option.
and I'm not really sure what the second restore is supposed to do
Already done (C'était une erreur de traduction... pour faire passer la fenêtre en dessous des autres)

Even if I don't use them often, I don't like the idea of hiding those actions.
(...)
And just keep fast access to the most common WM actions : minimize / maximize /close
A little cleanup could do more good that hiding everything into a box submenu.
There's no point of having nothing accessible in the first menu level. (11 items from 1st screenshot don't seem overwhelming)
Ok but why do you really want to keep these menu entries? Just to keep fast access to the most common WM actions? Yes but it's much faster to click on window's buttons or to use other shortkeys (Alt+F4, middle click on the icon) or shortcuts (drag and drop the window near the screen borders or double click on the border)? I guess this is why none of us use these actions (or rarely, only when there is a problem => so these actions should not be there but in a submenu which doesn't mean 'hiding' those actions for me)

SQP, Thursday 30 August 2012 à 16:02


Subscription date : 03 July 2010
Messages : 1081
Ok but why do you really want to keep these menu entries? Just to keep fast access to the most common WM actions?

because this is a taskbar

drag and drop the window near the screen borders or double click on the border

don't assume everybody use compiz, or with default options.

I don't have the pseudo-tiling options active, and a double click (or mousewheel) on a window titlebar enroll the window, only letting that titlebar visible.

As I said, I personnally don't use those shortcuts often, but they really make sense for a taskbar item, at least the 3 more common options : show, minimise and close.

I also consider that a menu should be balanced between an overcrowded list of options where you can't find anything and an endless hierarchy where you loose time accessing your items.
You win nothing changing your 11 items menu to a 6 items menu where there is only one action directly available.

http://uppix.net/2/6/4/723f1a71b1dfca48dfa35784b42b7.png
Here is the menu I have for a non active chromium (opened, non minimized, but not with focus) :
  • Items 1 (new), 2 (show), 4 (minimize) and 6 (close) are legitimate for all users and most cases (except for pure tiling WM maybe).
  • 3 (maximize) seem more situational to me (depending on screen size) : could be moved to the 'other actions' submenu.
  • and I don't have any idea what the 5 is supposed to do !

matttbe, Thursday 30 August 2012 à 18:12


Subscription date : 24 January 2009
Messages : 12573
Ok but why do you really want to keep these menu entries? Just to keep fast access to the most common WM actions?

because this is a taskbar
(...)
As I said, I personnally don't use those shortcuts often, but they really make sense for a taskbar item, at least the 3 more common options : show, minimise and close.
Yeah but... I think that the first goal of a taskbar is to quickly switch between active windows (and to see which windows are opened... of course ). After that, yes, it's interesting to manage windows but we can already minimise/show windows by clicking on their icons or close any windows with a middle click (and we can modify this shortcut).
But I think this is not the first goal of taskbar. No? I don't see many dock with menu entries to do such actions. It takes place and with that our menu are too big (and gtk's menus are maybe not so 'sexy'...).
But I repeat that I think it's better to simply move them on a submenu. They are still available and they are not hidden. It still takes time to have these menu entries (much more time than using window's buttons or shortkeys/shortcuts). Now it's just a bit more but it's not so long...

drag and drop the window near the screen borders or double click on the border

don't assume everybody use compiz, or with default options.
yes but I guess that everybody uses a WM and windows with borders and button to manage these windows. This is the goal of the WM to manage these windows and to quickly show all these actions.

I also consider that a menu should be balanced between an overcrowded list of options where you can't find anything and an endless hierarchy where you loose time accessing your items.
You win nothing changing your 11 items menu to a 6 items menu where there is only one action directly available.
Yes but when menus become too big and if it's not justified (e.g. these actions seems to be rarely used because they are already available somewhere else), it's a bit ugly. And it's maybe better to have a small hierarchy to sort menu entries (I didn't create a sub-submenus)

About the 'Close' menu entry, I think it's maybe the only one that can be set in the main menu just because it can be interesting to show that users can use the 'middle click' (which is the default action for this shortcut) to close a window and maybe also to show that an active window is linked to this icon.

lylambda, Friday 31 August 2012 à 17:53


Subscription date : 06 September 2009
Messages : 1635
Matttbe, I completely share your opinion (Yes, it's short, but what more can I add ? ).

fabounet, Monday 03 September 2012 à 17:45


Subscription date : 30 November 2007
Messages : 17118
I don't see many dock with menu entries to do such actions.

objection, that's not an argument

I guess that everybody uses a WM and windows with borders and button to manage these windows

hmmmmm, didn't gnome3 precisely remove the minimize/maximize buttons ?

the problem is that inside a sub-menu, it's really hard to use them.

matttbe, Monday 03 September 2012 à 21:04


Subscription date : 24 January 2009
Messages : 12573
hmmmmm, didn't gnome3 precisely remove the minimize/maximize buttons ?
Yes but it's not our problem! If they decided to remove these buttons, I guess they have (good?) reasons but it's not the problem of a dock.

I don't see many dock with menu entries to do such actions.
objection, that's not an argument
It's possible But we can see that we don't install a dock to have these actions on a menu.

the problem is that inside a sub-menu, it's really hard to use them.
Maybe, hard to know because we rarely use them

fabounet, Friday 07 September 2012 à 16:55


Subscription date : 30 November 2007
Messages : 17118
Yes but it's not our problem! If they decided to remove these buttons, I guess they have (good?) reasons but it's not the problem of a dock.

it is, since the dock act as a taskbar, and a taskbar should let you ... interact on the windows

hard to know because we rarely use them

you can do the test

I agree with you that they enlarge the menu too much, but I don't like a sub-menu for actions that should be direct (even if you don't use them, they are meant to have direct access), so i'm going to try something different it's quite complicated, so maybe in a few days I can have something better.

matttbe, Sunday 09 September 2012 à 13:56


Subscription date : 24 January 2009
Messages : 12573
it is, since the dock act as a taskbar, and a taskbar should let you ... interact on the windows
Yes but it's mainly to show/hide a window and to launch/close an application. This is why it can be interesting to add menu entries for other actions but these actions will not be used so often because they are available on windows borders (they are visible and it's easier and faster to click on these buttons than doing a right click on a launcher and select the right menu entry). Maybe the 'Close' menu entry can be added on the main menu but I'm not sure that it's very useful.

I agree with you that they enlarge the menu too much, but I don't like a sub-menu for actions that should be direct (even if you don't use them, they are meant to have direct access), so i'm going to try something different it's quite complicated, so maybe in a few days I can have something better
Yes, it's a another idea

http://uppix.net/d/d/3/6a827dcd633890d02154dd5e8457c.png


But I don't think it's very 'sexy'
If you really want to add these buttons, it's maybe better to place this menu entry at the end, without the label (it's a bit too large) and without button's border.
It's a very nice hack but currently I think it's not a good solution (and it's not common, I'm not sure that newbies will understand how to use this menu entry )

taiebot65, Sunday 09 September 2012 à 22:32


Subscription date : 26 October 2008
Messages : 1904
waouh very euh Ugly

Or an other option would be to create a new menu.
I would display those icons just above the selected icons in a very small area and display the menu above those icons but i would revamp the menu to look more centered and have a better look. Will try to make a mockup.

This would be a move forward to the tablet area.

taiebot65, Sunday 09 September 2012 à 23:00


Subscription date : 26 October 2008
Messages : 1904
OK two ugly mockups but its too show where and how i would put those icons to be able to be used without menu.
That would be very helpful for a tablet pc.

Icons are the round circle.

Menu1
http://uppix.net/2/c/6/0094310a78d8b9ebe56d3aa9c6a07tt.jpg

Menu2.
http://uppix.net/a/6/8/4ee6e2e4aa5e94ed0cc71e13193bftt.jpg

Guest, Thursday 13 September 2012 à 00:32

I find matttbe's test pretty efficient : easy to understand, everything is accessible without much space lost.
Just rename the entry "Window" instead of "Window actions", which is pretty clear with the "other actions" just behind.

Note that this geany menu isn't a good model for big menu (and no, even 10 entry isn't too much).
(and New instance is missing)

SQP

fabounet, Thursday 13 September 2012 à 17:32


Subscription date : 30 November 2007
Messages : 17118
Actually it's not a mockup, I've already pushed it a few days ago
feel free to test it

Guest, Friday 14 September 2012 à 10:53

That would require that I complete patches I started months ago and clear at least one of the 3 working dir I already have.
But I'm working on a Go project atm, and I'm not ready to go back to C yet :). Anyway my patches would have to wait the next release, so I'll see it at this moment.
(Golang is a really nice language I recommand, it even makes GTK almost usable)

SQP

taiebot65, Sunday 23 September 2012 à 11:01


Subscription date : 26 October 2008
Messages : 1904
It s actually not as bad as mattbe screenshot.

I actually quite like it . Not sure if i will ever use it though.

matttbe, Sunday 23 September 2012 à 11:43


Subscription date : 24 January 2009
Messages : 12573
This is what I have now:
http://uppix.net/0/d/1/bf5f26e8d51b1604147ac982ce402.png


For me, it's not bad but it's a bit flashy but it's mainly because it doesn't use Icon from the current GTK theme

matttbe, Sunday 23 September 2012 à 13:49


Subscription date : 24 January 2009
Messages : 12573
Et avec ma petite modif (rev: 1227)
http://uppix.net/6/2/d/caf6d496f3834a42f76806722e2e7.png

Git Version | Version Git

Subjects Author Language Messages Last message
[Locked] Menu: Who is using the window management entries? Let's move them to a submenu!
Page : 1 2
matttbe English 23 matttbe [Read]
03 October 2012 à 11:56


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